Rhenzy Feliz from The Penguin on the Nailing Vic grand finale

Spoiler alert: This article is about the finale of The penguin.

Rhenzy Feliz isn’t the biggest comic book fan; Outside of video games, he only really came into contact with the world of superheroes through Christopher Nolan’s Batman films, which he considered “the coolest thing on the planet.” But after making his TV debut in the underrated Hulu dramedy CasualFeliz’s biggest opportunities on the small screen come in the form of shows set in sprawling superhero worlds: Marvel’s Runaways and now The penguin on HBO.

In a cast of ruthless mafia bosses and psychopathic killers, Feliz’s character stands out: a soft-eyed 17-year-old with a stutter who still mourns the family he lost in a flood (thanks to the Riddler in the 2022 film). The Batmanwho also introduced Colin Farrell’s version of the penguin into this film world for the first time). But over the course of eight episodes, we saw how the influence of Farrell’s aspiring crime boss Oz Cobb transformed Victor Aguilar into a more confident and quick-thinking version of himself – and a more dangerous one, for better or worse.

TIME spoke with Feliz about starring alongside Farrell, perfecting Vic’s stutter, and filming that final scene the entire season has been building up to.

ZEIT: Colin Farrell is the main character you play in the series. How did you develop the chemistry between your characters?

Feliz: I think Colin and I were lucky. He and I work pretty similarly. Victor and Oz also meet on camera for the first time and their relationship grows, and that was really similar to what me and Colin went through: we met on set and our relationship grew over the course of the show. The closer he and I got, the closer Vic and Oz got, and we were able to play off that and use the same feeling as in real life.

Since Colin was constantly wearing prosthetics while filming, did it feel like you were talking to someone else when you spoke off set?

I mostly knew him as Oz. Most of the time he used this hybrid accent. Even when he picked up the Irish accent, there were little hints of Oz in it. I may have spoken to Colin’s face less than seven times, six times. Maybe there would be eight or nine now. Whenever I talk to Colin now he looks at me like we know each other, and we do, but I feel like I’m not looking at the guy I know. I didn’t fully understand it until they sent me the episodes. When I saw Oz on camera for the first time, it kind of hit me and I was like, “Oh my God, there’s the guy I spent months and months and months with.” I missed it The Guy.” It’s strange to put into words.

He’s really unrecognizable, especially with the accent.

Apart from the accent and the prosthetics – right down to his mannerisms, the way he moves his face. When Colin is confused, he makes a different face than when Oz is confused. I got to see it up close and was in awe the entire time, but seeing it as an audience member allowed me to really take it all in.

What was it like working with a speech consultant on Vic’s stutter?

That’s what I was most worried about: trying to manage the stuttering in a thoughtful, honest way. I felt like people might be upset about it. But thankfully the response I received was overwhelmingly positive. I worked with this speech consultant, Marc Winski, and he himself stutters. He was such an open book. One of the things that was most useful wasn’t necessarily the technical aspects: the reps or the blocks or anything like that How My mouth should move. It was more the psychological aspect of what’s going on in your head.

Did you consciously postpone the stuttering over the course of the show?

The stutter changes over the course of the show, but not because he becomes more confident. This is a misconception: for some people it goes away with age, but for some it doesn’t. Victor is one of those people for whom it doesn’t stop. It’s not necessarily about when he’s more confident or nervous or angry or sad. A stutter can be really inconsistent. Sometimes when you’re really angry you won’t have any, but sometimes when you’re really angry you’ll have it more than ever. Sometimes there is no rhyme or reason.

What changes is your comfort level with speaking in general. You’ll notice that when Vic is in Sofia for the first time in Episode 3 – me and Marc worked on it a lot and incorporated it into the script – there’s a lot more “uh”, “uh”, those filler words. When she hears him stuttering, she thinks he’s nervous and hiding something. To avoid stuttering, pretend to think “um,” “uhhh.” She doesn’t hear you being blocked on a word. So it depends on who he’s talking to: whether he’s on the phone or not, whether he’s meeting someone for the first or fifth time, whether he feels comfortable with them or not. It lives and breathes on its own.

In this finale, we see Vic really prove himself to be a worthy sidekick, mobilizing Link and people from these various criminal empires against the Maronis and Gigantes. What makes Vic suitable for this and how does he do it?

Victor continually learns from one of the brighter minds in the underground crime world. Oz thinks quickly and always makes the right moves. Sometimes he lets his anger get the best of him and is impulsive, but when it comes to moving chess pieces there is no one better. Vic will sit there and watch and listen and observe and absorb the information. At the start of Episode 6, Oz tells Victor, “These people, we have their loyalty. Do you know why? Because we pay them.” What does Vic do later in this episode to figure out the Squid situation? He’s trying to pay him off.

So when it comes to the moment, “God, how are we going to do this?” He doesn’t just sit back and take orders. He is learning to be proactive and figure things out on his own. Victor could see that Link and these other guys have that respect and that the deputies are ambitious too. This is her moment to stand up.

The biggest Vic moment in the finale is, of course, his death at the hands of Oz, shortly after calling him “family.” How did you discuss this scene and how early did you know this was Vic’s fate?

[Showrunner Lauren LeFranc] and I talked about it even before I arrived in New York to start filming. We knew there would be this arc, this big moment at the end. There were a lot of conversations leading up to it about what it would be like physically, feel like and look like. This day was something that Colin and I had both metaphorically circled on our calendars. I remember a week before he said something like this: “Are you ready? Did a scene in a week.” And I’m like, “I know, I know, I know.” And then three days before, he said, “You know, three days,” and then the day before, ” Tomorrow is the big day!”

The most important part to nail it for Victor is the first half of this scene: this incredibly vulnerable state that he allows himself to be put in. It’s pretty soft. It’s slow, takes time and is slow. Victor basically tells Oz “I love you” in her own words. That’s the subtext. They’re too macho to say those words to each other, but that’s the feeling. When I read it I thought it was beautiful and I wanted to give it air and space. My and Colin’s coverage was shot at exactly the same time, so it all feels very organic and back and forth and sweet… right before it isn’t.

What was the filming experience like?

It took all night. We were outside, it was a cold winter day in New York. We shot this on Roosevelt Island on the riverfront. It was really quiet. It’s cruel and brutal. Towards the end of the show, these bright moments kind of disappear and you’re left with something pretty dark and twisted. We see Oz transform into something irretrievable. When we were on set that day, everyone was feeling grumpy. There was darkness in the air, there was silence.

While watching this season, I constantly worried about Vic. He feels like a tragic figure. I thought, “Oh God, don’t kill this guy, he’s the heart and soul.”

Maybe I’m just being cynical, but I thought people might not be that interested in Victor since he’s not a badass. Even Francis is pretty badass when he berates Sofia in this scene. It’s fun to watch. Oz is a badass, Sofia is a badass. Victor is a little more sensitive and softer. You can see how much it hurts him to kill Squid, someone he’s known for years. Of course it changes with more time. I think if he ended up having to shoot Sofia just as she’s about to pull out her gun, he wouldn’t feel as bad as he did the first time. But I was afraid that people wouldn’t connect with him that way because he wasn’t as “cool” as the others.

But the responses I’ve received so far show that people care. He is very close to my heart. He’s just a kid in this very crazy, psychotic world where he has to dismember and murder people. This is not normal for a 17 year old child.

To OutliersYou’ve worked with a lot of younger actors, so this seems like a whole different beast.

Secure. [At 27] I am [among] the youngest in this thing so it was different but I couldn’t have asked for anything better. It feels like everyone is doing their best and it’s inspiring to be a part of it. The only thing you’re trying to do is not be the weak link, but be on par with everyone else’s performance. I know how hard everyone worked on this show, from the writers to the producers to the cast and crew. Seeing how hard everyone has worked while being so great at what they do makes me never want to get to the point where I feel comfortable enough to just roll.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.