Who is Evan Mobley’s current comparison and what is his ceiling? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• The Cavs are off to a historic 8-0 start, tying a franchise record.
• Injuries have significantly impacted both the Cavs and their opponents.
• Darius Garland is playing at an All-Star level, showcasing his talent and confidence.
• Evan Mobley is evolving into a key player with immense potential.
• Team chemistry and empowerment are crucial for the Cavs’ success this season.
• The coaching style of Kenny Atkinson is positively influencing player development.
• The Cavs’ schedule has been favorable, contributing to their strong start.
• Darius Garland’s joy for the game has returned, enhancing his performance.
• Donovan Mitchell’s leadership is vital for the team’s dynamics.
• Max Strus’ return from injury is anticipated to bolster the team’s offense.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands (00:01.329)

Three, two, one. What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. Joining me today from New Orleans, Chris Fedor. Chris, we know New Orleans might not be one of your favorite places to be at, but I know you are looking forward to the Cavs game against the Pelicans for one main reason.

History could be in the making. Chris, the Cavs are 8-0 tying a franchise record for a start to the season. They did it by beating the Milwaukee Bucks for the second time in as many games. I know we haven’t gotten to talk too much about the last game, so I wanted to get your thoughts on how the game went down and what this team is doing to start the season.

Chris (00:55.616)

Yeah, Ethan, first of all, you should not speak of that New Orleans thing until I actually leave New Orleans. Somebody might be listening to the podcast and might just be like sitting outside my hotel lobby waiting for me or something like that. There are things about New Orleans that I do like. Look, a Bourbon Street is chaos. I will walk around there tonight. I’m staying in the French Quarter at a hotel. So the street that I’m on basically runs right into Bourbon Street.

You know, it’s a beautiful night here in New Orleans, so I’m going to take in the chaos of Bourbon Street. I’m going to get me some Southern cuisine for dinner. I’m going to do that again for lunch. I might even go to Cafe de Monde tomorrow before shoot around so that I can get some beignets and a cafe latte. So there are different things about New Orleans that I do like, but you’re right in terms of the hierarchy of places that we get to visit in this job.

It certainly doesn’t register in the top five. Although I do, usually when I’m here late at night, I usually do stop into a live music place to hear some live jazz, which is really, really cool. And you don’t really get that other places, at least, you know, the same vibe is what you can get here in New Orleans. Aside from that, like, yes, big game tomorrow night against the Pelicans. And there is no reason why the Cavs should not start the season nine and up.

I know Dean Wade is questionable. I have my doubts that he’s going to play. Everything that I have been told by people close to Dean and people around the team, it looks more like Friday than tomorrow night. So he’s questionable. And obviously the Cavs felt that loss of Dean, taking him out of the starting lineup and replacing him with Isaac Okoro is just a different kind of dynamic. And Karis LaVert is questionable. We’ll have to see.

if he’s able to go through shoot around on Wednesday, but New Orleans is reeling. New Orleans is not a good team. Zion hasn’t played the last couple of games. They’re trying to figure out all the different combinations with their lineup. No CJ McCollum, no DeJontay Murray. So you’re basically playing against the Pelicans B team for a chance at history. And if the Cavs are the team that they have said that they are,

Chris (03:19.99)

that they have shown themselves to be in the first eight games, one of the best offenses in the NBA, one of the best defenses in the NBA, and clearly one of the best teams in the NBA, these are the games that they should win. They did it earlier this season against Detroit. They did it earlier this season against Washington. They did it earlier this season against Toronto. When you’re given these figurative layups in the NBA,

even coming off a hard fought, emotional two game set against the Milwaukee Bucks. You know, if you’re one of the best teams in the NBA, you take care of these kinds of games.

Ethan Sands (03:58.279)

Chris, it’s interesting you mentioned the injuries on both sides, right? Obviously we understand how impactful they can be for the Cavs, but if I’m doing my math right, the New Orleans Pelicans have played in eight games thus far, and they’ve had six players play in all eight games.

Right? So this is a debilitated team that is playing without, like you said, some of its stars. Zion Williamson is a key piece for that. Trying to figure out if he’s going to be able to go on Wednesday. And then you got an interesting piece in Brandon Ingram, who has played in all eight of those regular season games. And obviously we understand that he was a trade piece potential in this past offseason that was

all over the news. It was being talked about in abundance, right? And I think the cows want to go in there.

Chris (04:46.156)

Thank

More trade rumors this offseason on Brandon Ingram or Darius Garland slash Jared Allen. I don’t know. It’s kind of a push, I think.

Ethan Sands (04:56.925)

As they would say at the blackjack table for sure but Chris I think it’s definitely gonna be a game where the Cavs go in and try and assert dominance from the beginning and try and show that they are the better team and also for Brandon Ingram to be like hey Sorry to tell you this buddy, but we didn’t need you to be great and They’re trying to show all the fans and and haters back from the offseason that believed that the Cavs needed to make a change to do so

Chris (05:15.321)

Hehehehehe

Ethan Sands (05:24.335)

And Chris, I wanted to get a little bit more from you on that because we’ve talked about and you’ve written about for cleveland.com about how important the depth and the consistency of the camaraderie has been for this team for the start of the season, eight and Is this something that you would have expected?

Chris (05:41.462)

So I was having this conversation with my wife the other day and you know, all of my great ideas come from conversations with her, obviously. But she asked me that question. She said, like, how surprising is this? And I thought about it and it’s like, they’ve been the underdog in two games, I think, two, maybe on the road against New York, right? And then on the road against Milwaukee. Aside from that, they’ve been the favorite.

So like, is 8-0 surprising? Sort of, because it’s hard to go 8-0 in the NBA, right? Even Boston has lost a game. And we all know how dominant Boston is, how dominant Boston can be, and the way that the Celtics, when at full strength, have separated themselves from the rest of the NBA. I’ve been on record saying that I don’t think there’s a team in the NBA that can beat them four times in seven tries. So even they have a loss on their resume.

Right? Even the Phoenix Suns who have been great to start the year. And it’s clear that the coaching change has been a big deal for them. And Kevin Durant playing at a high level, Devin Booker playing at a high level. They got Bradley Beal back recently. Some of the changes that they made in the off season, that’s worked well for them. Even Phoenix has a loss. The only teams without a loss, Oklahoma City and Cleveland. And I think like…

Taking away the whole idea of it’s hard to go undefeated for two weeks in the NBA because it’s the NBA and crazy things happen. It’s not all that surprising because they returned 13 or 14 players from last year’s team and because they’ve played against some favorable opponents. The schedule itself has been pretty difficult because of the amount of travel, because of the amount of back to backs, three games and four nights.

7-11, that’s going to take a toll on your team early in the season. But it really hasn’t been the most difficult schedule. And some of the tougher teams that were supposed to give them a problem, they weren’t at full strength or they weren’t ready to compete in the way that maybe they would be in March or April end of the season. So like that Orlando game was supposed to be

Chris (08:05.708)

a rematch of the playoffs and it was supposed to be a test for the Cavs. They didn’t have Paulo Bencaro. They’re a completely different team without Paulo Bencaro. This most recent game against the Milwaukee Bucks, yeah, Karras didn’t play, Dean Wade didn’t play, but they didn’t have this dude named Giannis, who just happens to be a two-time MVP who was putting up historic numbers at the beginning of the season for the Bucks that were kind of going overlooked because

They were in a bad space and they weren’t winning games. And then New York at the time that the Cavs got New York, they were still trying to figure out a bunch of different things within that roster. McHale Bridges knew. Carl Anthony Towns knew. Some pieces on the bench knew. And they just aren’t the team that I think they’re going to be at the end of the year. So this is a roundabout way of saying that, yes, I’m surprised because it’s hard to do it.

so consistently the way that the Cavs have for two weeks in the NBA. But I’m also not surprised because if we consider them a legitimate contender coming into this season and they’re favored in six of the eight games, how many were really that difficult that we’re working against them? I guess if there’s anything that’s surprising to me, Ethan, the most surprising part

is the level of consistent dominance that they have shown. Like they’re not just beating teams. The game against Milwaukee the other night aside, they’re not just beating teams, right? They’re blowing them out. They’re in situations where their starters haven’t had to play consistently in the fourth quarter to finish the game. Where Kenny Atkinson can throw out the victory cigars. That to me, the fact that they have a top three offense in the NBA, that to me,

is surprising because I thought that was going to take a little bit of time.

Ethan Sands (10:04.839)

And I wrote about it in my preview for the season, right? Like the Cavs, obviously, like you mentioned, have a favorable schedule, but they were also trying to implement a brand new offense, right? Like trying to change things around to make it as prominent and as proficient as Kenny Atkinson would have liked. And to do that against teams that were in favorable matchups for them was the best way to do that.

Chris (10:31.212)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (10:33.851)

But obviously it was up to the Cavs to come out and actually orchestrate and finish the job. And like you mentioned, the Cavs schedule is more so what I thought at the beginning of the season would make it more difficult because of how much they had to do back to back. We still have two more, I believe it is, to end the month of November. And like.

Chris (10:57.387)

Yes.

Ethan Sands (10:59.601)

That’s going to be difficult, only for the teams that they’re facing off with, traveling, having one on the road and one as a back to back, both at home. It’s just an environment of having this team been together for so long. And this is the third year of the Donovan Mitchell experience. That’s what we’ve talked about a lot, right? And it hasn’t felt like the burden has been on Donovan Mitchell the entire season, right?

At the end of last year, we had jokes in the locker room. We had jokes in the media about like, OK, JB, the plan is to give Donovan Mitchell the ball and go and get out the way. Right. He was like, yes and no. Right. Because like in certain situations you have to. But that we do have like plays and things of that nature. This year, it’s Donovan Mitchell is the franchise face.

but he doesn’t have to be the best player in each and every game for the Cavs to be successful, right? In the last couple of games, they’ve had over five people in double figures consistently. So for me, with all this being said and Donovan Mitchell not only taking a backseat in most games other than the Milwaukee Bucks game where he hit his first game winner of his career, which is insane to me to think about, but who has impressed you the most?

Chris (12:18.028)

Thank you.

Ethan Sands (12:22.523)

Because I’m having a hard time deciphering between this question, right? Obviously, you can talk to Evan Mobley, Jared Allen’s consistency, Darius Garland coming back and being the player that we had thought that he could be. And then you look at the bench, right? Dean Wade coming up and playing as a starting small forward, Sam Merrill. So all of these guys have had their place, had their place and made an impact in their own way. But Chris, for me, I want to know for you,

Is there someone on this team to start the season that stood out to you the most?

Chris (12:56.736)

So there is, and I want to drive home the point about the Cavs schedule so far, there are one, two, three, four, five, six, six teams in the NBA, according to basketball reference, however they figure these things out, I just trust them, they do the math. There are only six teams that have had an easier schedule than the Cavs to this point, and that’s not taking anything away from this eight-node start. It’s trying to put it in perspective and answer your question as honestly as possible.

about whether we should be that surprised about this when they’ve beaten the likes of Washington, Detroit, Toronto, Orlando without Palo. So that’s all. Aside from that, yes, even to me it’s Darius. This is all star level Darius Garland. I think there was a relative understanding that there was more from Evan Mobley that was going to show this year.

There’s a natural evolution of a basketball player with more opportunities, with more touches, with a higher usage rate. I even talked to Evan about a week ago now about his evolution as a player. And one of the things that he said to me was essentially, you know, this is who I envisioned myself being. It just takes time to get to this point. Player development isn’t linear. Opportunities aren’t the same for every young player, depending on the situation that they go into.

So I think there was this baked in idea that, and part of it was what we saw in the playoffs. And part of it was what we saw when Evan came back from his lengthy injury. Remember he missed about six weeks. And then he came back and he was a different kind of player. He was shooting the ball better. He wasn’t as reliant on his teammates to create shots for him. And there were like noticeable differences within his game.

And then you give him an entire offseason coming off the playoff experience, the way that he dominated at times in those series, especially the final game against the Celtics. And there was this baked in idea that there was more from Evan Mobley. There was naturally going to be some kind of evolution. With Darius, I don’t think there was a guarantee that he was going to get back to this point. Like, yes.

Chris (15:19.852)

There were logical reasons that pointed to last year being a complete outlier. Just looking at his career arc and looking at his career to that point, you could look at last season and say, all the stuff that he was dealing with, that was going to affect anybody, not, okay, we’re just going to give you a pass on last year, but like the reasons make sense that you struggled the way that you did. So let’s see it.

in a different system with a new coach and with a rejuvenated player who is happier, who is free in terms of his mental space, who is not dealing with all the different things that he dealt with both on and off the court. But to see him play at this level, to see him in fourth quarters, two fourth quarters where he really came through

That was a knock on him, right? Especially last year. But throughout the course of his career, that was a knock on him. People were wondering, you know, can he be the late game alpha? Can he be the franchise face? To see him come through in the fourth quarter the way that he did, going shot for shot against Dame, one of the most clutch players of the last 10 years in the NBA. Seeing Darius have the kind of game that he had where he scored, you know, 34.

against the New York Knicks, seeing him have the kind of efficient game against the Washington Wizards where it was the best shooting night that he’s ever had in his entire career. Like this is a different guy. This is a reminder that yes, I am one of the most talented young point guards in the NBA. Yes, I was an all-star for a reason and not just because Donovan wasn’t here yet. I was an all-star for a reason and not just because the game was being played in Cleveland.

and they wanted to give Cleveland some kind of representation. Darius playing at this kind of level where he just looks so comfortable. He looks so different. He looks so confident. I don’t think that was a guarantee. I think there was a bounce back there to be had, but I think a lot of people, myself included, wanted to see, okay, what level of a bounce back is it going to be? It’s back to a star turn.

Chris (17:47.52)

It gives me flashbacks to when he was an all-star and when defenses just didn’t have answers for him. And when he could break down anybody in front of him and get into the teeth of defense. When he was knocking down his outside shots consistently. When he was running in offense and making that offense tick and making that offense go. The level that Darius has gotten to, to me.

is a surprise and he deserves all the credit for the way that he has played in the first eight games.

Ethan Sands (18:27.355)

And I wanna, before we get more into the human aspect of Darius, cause I think there’s a lot to touch on, especially from last night and what had happened after the game. But I wanna rattle off some stats for our listeners, right? Darius Garland is just the second Cav ever to record 39 points or more on 68 % from the field shooting with seven or more three point field goals made. The other one is Mo Williams.

from 2009 against the Phoenix Suns, right? Darius is also just the fifth Cav in the fifth player in Cav’s history to reach numbers as in 39 points, eight assists, seven three-point field goals per game, or seven three-point field goals made in a single game, joining LeBron James, who did it three times, because he’s LeBron James, Mo Williams, Kyrie Irving, and Donovan Mitchell, right? So those are important.

But then you look at the other thing where it’s Darius Garland also tied LeBron James in games with five or more threes as a Cavalier already, right? And then the last thing that I think was the most prominent from last season, something that we really wanted to harp on, especially with how he started the season last year, which was turnovers. In the game against the Bucks when they were in Milwaukee, Darius didn’t have a

Chris (19:35.916)

Mm.

Ethan Sands (19:54.909)

huge scoring night like he did on Monday, but he had 10 assists and 11 points with zero turnovers. It was the second game of his NBA career with a double-double and zero turnovers. The other one happened in 2022 against the Dallas Mavericks when he had 18, 12, and zero turnovers, obviously. But this is a guy who is showing you that he is a part of

Chris (20:13.612)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (20:21.901)

High class a high caliber of player especially when you talk about the Cavs history LeBron James and any conversation that you’re in is huge that Darius also Surpassed a number when it comes to three-pointers made in Cavs history the other night. I think he’s above 700 now so he’s in the top of one of those lists like he’s a top a very not a top he’s in the conversation for one of the best Cavs shooters of all time

Chris (20:41.644)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (20:51.397)

right, when it comes to Three Pointers Made. Chris, that all came, especially in last night against the Bucks on Monday, where he had family and friends in attendance, right? People that cared about him, and I talked about this in the podcast yesterday, just sitting in the media room, like taking videos and soaking in the moment of not Darius’ performance per se, but of his joy and happiness.

Like, as you mentioned, he said in his post-game press conference that he’s free of mind. He is now, and as you reported earlier this season, he’s got his joy back. It’s now fun to play basketball again. And I mentioned this and I wanted to get your take on it. Darius has been doing his, he’s created a new signature, right? His new signature is the kiss to the sky after a three pointer, right? I wanted to ask Darius, and I haven’t gotten to do this, but I…

Chris (21:24.616)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (21:42.144)

Yep.

Ethan Sands (21:48.113)

potentially you could do it while you’re there in New Orleans. Is he doing that for his grandmother? Is he doing that to celebrate the enjoyment of playing the game? Or is he just doing that? For me, it’s never been showmanship. He’s not doing it to the fans. He’s not doing it to the crowd. He’s doing it to the sky. And I think it’s either a celebration of life or a celebration of the game.

Chris (22:10.08)

Yeah.

Chris (22:15.328)

Yeah, I noticed that in New York, I noticed that last night against Milwaukee, it does seem to be his signature. He’s using the three fingers for the three point thing. I don’t know. Everybody’s got their thing, right? Evan Mobley’s got his three point celebration. Donovan’s got his where he kind of like pats his chest and points up to the sky a little bit after doing like a slow run down court. Steph Curry’s got night night.

LeBron’s got his, that is on my list of things to ask Darius because I’m wondering the same thing as you. I wonder if it is a tribute to his grandma. You know, the thing that people don’t fully understand about his grandma passing away, Darius told me that was his last remaining grandparent. And his grandma was one of like 60 people that Darius had at Barclays Center when he was drafted in 2019.

He brought this huge contingent from Gary, Indiana, because he is such a family person. He is so family oriented. I think that’s part of the reason why he went to Clutch Sports, to be perfectly honest with you. Yeah, Rich Paul is a super agent, and yeah, Rich Paul gets dudes paid. But they’ve created a family at Clutch Sports. One of their slogans is La Familia, and I think that resonates with Darius. I think one of the reasons why Darius resigned.

beyond the fact that he got 200 plus million dollars from the Cavs. And at the time he was the highest paid player in franchise history. I think part of the reason why he signed with the Cavs is it felt like home and his family was embraced here and it felt like the organization did have a family vibe to it and he wanted to continue to be a part of that. So his grandma passing away, you know, that was really, really difficult on him.

And he didn’t really have an opportunity to grieve because it was in the middle of the season, he was working his way back from a jaw injury. He was trying to find his form and his on-court rhythm. He was leaving the team on off days at the Cavs request, basically, to go support his family, console his family, and help them with whatever arrangements were required there.

Chris (24:37.872)

And I had somebody close to Darius tell me this off season that his grandmother played a big part in raising him. So that was taken away from him midway through the season while he was dealing with all the other stuff that he was dealing with. And it was just hard. So you combine that with the fact that it was a fractured jaw that had him, it’s a traumatic injury that had him sipping out of a straw, all liquid diet.

all those different things, is Ben Well documented at this point in time. But it certainly seems like in the first eight games, only eight games, but it certainly seems like in the first eight games that last year was, is going to be the outlier in Darius Garland’s career. And the guy that the Cavs signed to the big contract, the guy that Donovan Mitchell ran around a golf course celebrating because he was teaming up with, like that’s the guy.

who is playing point guard for this team, not the shell of the guy that we saw last year.

Ethan Sands (25:43.217)

The other player that I wanted to touch on that has come to fruition, right, has evolved to a different player already just started the season and he’s gone, he’s gotten off to a great start. and he’s a guy that the Cavs need to get off to a great start and to continue to get into a consistent mode of doing that. Right. Evan Mobley is who I am talking about. And on Monday’s game, there was a second quarter three possession sequence that

I believe had the entire world unnoticed the entire NBA world if you want to be more more close-minded about it, but I think Evan Mobley being able to get a block get his own rebound go coast to coast and then dunk with his left hand then come back and make a Three-pointer on the very next possession on top of all the other things that he was able to do I mean he ended with the gate he ended the game with three blocks

And I don’t think people notice that because of the Jared Allen block to seal the game, right? And for me, Chris, we’ve talked in the past about the comparisons to Evan Mobley and who he could be like. I’ve said Chris Bosh in a conversation to go back to the Miami Heat and what they did in their championship run with Dwayne Wade and LeBron and Bosh and how they had to change their offense under Eric Spolstra to be a five out offense with

Chris (26:46.968)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (27:11.111)

Chris Bosh at the five. Now I’ve seen Giannis and Chris, and now I’ve seen Giannis and Evan Mobley play side by side. And the comparison that even Doc Rivers made in his preseason, in his pregame press conference was that he’s a mini Giannis, Evan Mobley is. And I understand it. And especially if the Cavs are going to continue to have Jared Allen as the five man, I said this yesterday, I think.

It’s a smart decision to do that at this point in time. But if they are going to do that, I definitely see a bigger comparison with Evan Mobley and Giannis Antetokounmpo than Chris Bosh at this point in time in his career. Because who knows? It could change. It could be currently like he’s like Chris Bosh in Toronto. But I wanted to get your take on who you think is the best comparison and what is the ceiling.

for Evan Mobley if he becomes the overall player that I think the Cavs want him to be.

Chris (28:15.5)

I how I phrased this a couple years ago. I combined a couple names and I just like made up a name. I think he’s… Kevis Gourache?

combination of Kevin Garnett and Chris Bosh because like Bosh wasn’t this as a defender not early in his career in Toronto but Evan wasn’t the offensive force early in his career that Chris Bosh was. Chris Bosh came into the NBA basically scoring 20 a night. Chris Bosh came in the NBA with a smooth polished 15 to 20 foot jumper.

That’s what he was in college. That’s what he was early in his career. And I don’t think Evan, you know, I don’t think Evan’s even at that point yet that Bosch was when he first entered the NBA. I think Evan’s on that trajectory as an offensive player. But it’s just not the same. It’s not the same exact skill set. At the same time, like Evan is an all world defender since the minute he stepped foot onto an NBA.

floor and that that makes me think of Kevin Garnett, Anthony Davis, those kinds of guys. So I think it’s weird because I think there’s like a superstar mixture in there. And I think if you just combine them all together, this is going to sound crazy, but I see a little AD, right? I see a little Chris Bosh, late career Chris Bosh with his ability to switch onto the perimeter.

maybe space it out to the three point line as opposed to just in the midi. see some, especially this year, I see some downhill off the dribble attacking out of inverted pick and rolls that make me think Janis. Is he as strong? Is he as physical? No, but that kind of skill set is what makes Janis so difficult. So if you flash it forward a couple years from now,

Chris (30:18.166)

Can you see Evan doing those same kind of Yanis-like things when it comes to attacking the basket? When it comes to playing out of inverted pick and roll? When it comes to rebound and push? Yeah, I think so. So I just think there’s a lot of different elements to his game that make him really, really tantalizing and really, really exciting for a coach in Kenny Atkinson who is more willing to tap into those things.

who is more willing to deal with the growing pains, who is more willing to put the offense in his hands and call plays for him and things like that. So I think it’s a little Kevin Garnett, I think it’s a little Chris Bosh, I think it’s a little Anthony Davis, I think it’s a little Tim Duncan, I think it’s a little bit of Yannis, it’s just, those are lofty lofty comparisons, right? But.

Like, I hate to keep using phrases that the players use all the time, but since the minute that Evan came into the NBA, it has felt like the sky is the limit. That he has endless potential if he just realizes it. And that’s a big if, right? Not every player is going to realize that potential. But if he does, like we’re talking about a top five player in the NBA.

Ethan Sands (31:40.295)

Yeah, mean, Darius Garland reiterated the fact last night he has called him a unicorn since he entered the league, right? And obviously a lot of different players have used that term and claimed that term. That’s partially the reason that Victor Wimminyama doesn’t call himself an alien. He doesn’t call himself a unicorn. He calls himself an alien, right? Because there’s too many unicorns now. I am different from those. And I think…

Evan Mobley can be a unicorn. think he might have been a part of unicorn fam in high school. I don’t know. But yeah, Chris, you mentioned Kevin Garnett. This is where I want to end the podcast because you talk about the aggressiveness. You talk about him being more attack minded, something that he’s came into the season and had that same mentality throughout. It doesn’t feel like he’s wavered. And in last night’s game, he didn’t start the game well. But as I mentioned in yesterday’s podcast,

I don’t think he was deterred. It felt like he kept going at the rim. He kept trying different ways to attack their defenders. And he’s increased his handle significantly since his off season and especially since last year. And Kevin Garnett coming into the season said that he needs Evan Mobley to be more mean, in his words, more meaner, right, to get to that next level. And I think…

Although it doesn’t feel like Evan Mobley has been more mean, he’s definitely had a different state of mind than he has to start his career. He’s more aggressive. He’s more attack minded. He’s more, I can take you off the dribble. I can post you up. I can do three different moves and I can beat you in any different way. For me, I wanted to know, do you think his aggressiveness has been to the par that they have wanted to start the year?

Chris (33:17.098)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (33:30.083)

Or do you think he still has another gear to tap into? mean, Kenny Atkinson talked about he wants him to continue to bring up the ball even more than he already has. So I think, and Jared Allen said it after last night’s game, that he still thinks there’s more. So are you in that same boat?

Chris (33:38.316)

Yeah.

Chris (33:48.17)

Yeah, I think there’s more for sure. but, but I think what you’re seeing with Evan is the result of a lot of things. I think it’s the result of a lot of hard work, throughout the course of his career, including in the off season to become more comfortable being this kind of player. And I also think he feels empowered and I think he feels elevated. I think he feels empowered by Kenny Atkinson in a way that he wasn’t by JV Bickerstaff. And I think he feels empowered by Donovan Mitchell. You know, I talked about this.

Shortly after the season ended last year and the Cavs lost against the Celtics, it’s game five, we’re in the visitors locker room. Donovan Mitchell didn’t play, Karis LaVert didn’t play. We were talking to all the different guys about how the season ended and Donovan pulled Evan aside. He pounded him on the chest multiple times. He looked him in the eye and he said, that’s who you need to be. That’s who you are. That’s Donovan Mitchell. That’s the leader of the team.

That’s a multi-time All-Star. That’s an MVP candidate. That’s one of the best players in the NBA. Regardless of position. One of the best players in the NBA. Basically saying, not I’m passing you the torch because I still have to be me and I still have to be a great player. And there’s a way that we can be successful with me being the player that I’ve been in the past. But I need you to be more demanding of the basketball.

I need you to tell me to get you the ball. I need you to elevate your game throughout the course of this off season and in training camp and in preseason so that we can empower you so that we can feature you more. That was Donovan saying, I want you to be a focal point of this offense. And I think that mattered to Evan. I think that resonated with him. I think that gave him confidence. I think that gives him comfort.

I think that makes him more decisive. know, Evan has grown up and he has always tried to play the right way and he’s always tried to make the right play. And I totally understand from his perspective as a young player, despite everything that everybody was saying to him and about him, like I totally understand this nagging thought in the back of his mind of, is this the best thing for us? Would it be better if I passed the ball to Donovan?

Chris (36:12.8)

Would it be better if I gave the ball to Darius? Is me shooting a mid-range jumper really the best thing? Is me pulling up for three in semi-transition really the best thing? Am I ready for that? Am I ready for that level of responsibility? Is my game polished enough for that level of responsibility? And I totally understand a young player that’s still coming into his own having little doubts like that. But I do think he is a different kind of player.

because he’s been empowered. think that has given him comfort and confidence. I think the way that they’re using him has been advantageous to him. It allows him to get the ball on the move and attack with a full head of steam. And if these bigger defenders are going to come out to the perimeter and guard him, he can use his quickness, he can use his athleticism, he can use his finishing ability. So the way that the Cavs are using him within this offense.

and the way that he’s able to dribble the ball up and get ahead of steam going and use his speed, athleticism and quickness and advantage that he usually has over most players his size, not every player his size, but most players his size. I think the way that they’re using him within the offense has allowed him to be more comfortable and has allowed him to flourish in a different kind of way.

Ethan Sands (37:33.629)

And you talked a little bit about Kenny Atkinson imploring him to do things differently than he has in the past, to be more aggressive, to take the ball out of the court, to not look around and just go. And I talked about it in the podcast yesterday, just how a split second can give the defense enough time to get back rather than innately taking it and going coast to coast or setting up the offense with his own dribble.

The other thing that we’ve seen that’s been different with Kenny Atkinson this year that we’ve talked about since the beginning of the season, since even a preseason when we saw a glimpse of it, was that last year, Jamie Bickerstav used the combination of Jared Allen and Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland and Evan Mobley. And this year it has been Donovan and Evan and Darius and Jared. And obviously you touched on it, Donovan being the guy to…

Chris (38:16.908)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (38:27.729)

give power to all of his teammates and how that has impacted them, one, but two, just knowing where to give Evan the ball, knowing when to give Evan the ball, knowing that if he’s the one giving him the pass, that Evan’s not gonna look and be like, okay, do I have to give it back to him? He’s like, no, I’m giving you the ball because I want you to go do something with it. And the other thing with that is it’s not only Evan Mobley, right? It’s Darius Garland too.

Chris (38:45.356)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (38:57.467)

Somebody who we’ve seen countless times the hugs after significant plays, the hugs after games, and even after the Damien Lillard thing, the little saga that they had, obviously it’s very cool for them to, Donovan and Darius, one of them hits a game winner on Saturday, the other hits a crucial three pointer on Monday to beat Damien Lillard. Two guys that looked up to or have the same mentor as Damien Lillard, right?

For me it was Jared Allen talking about the play that they drew up or that Donovan orchestrated during the game for Darius his last three about how Jared Allen was supposed to go set a screen and Donovan was gonna get there is to ball. That was it That’s the play and that’s what they ran and that’s how this sequence ended. So Chris, this is a guy that

Chris (39:44.032)

well.

Chris (39:49.516)

I mean, you bring up a good point about matching minutes between Evan and Donovan Mitchell, and that is not an accident. You I know that there are fans out there that think that these teams just kind of experiment with things and they do them by happenstance. What this organization has done related to Evan Mobley has been calculated from day one, and it has to be, and it’s intentional. Think about where Evan Mobley’s locker is.

Who’s the closest regular to Evan Mobley in that locker room? Donovan Mitchell. Yeah, and that’s not an accident. Who is the person that warms up pregame at the same exact time Evan does? And it was a change this year. It was a schedule adjustment. Donovan Mitchell. Whose minutes are being matched with Evan Mobley’s? Like almost.

Ethan Sands (40:25.213)

you in the next one.

Chris (40:45.852)

Every single night consistently there have been various nights where fall trouble Ineffectiveness, but for the most part It’s it’s Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. That is intentional I have had multiple conversations with multiple members of the organization about that and they admit it that it is intentional one they think the pairing of Donovan and Evan works they think the skill set works, but Donovan and Nick Jarrett works too

And they know that and they’ve seen that. They want to get the most out of Evan Mobley and they believe that Donovan, that the way that he started with it last year following game five, empowering Evan, they believed that it was going to carry over onto the floor and it has. And it’s all intentional. Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley at various points this year have shared the same basket following shoot around at Cleveland Clinic courts. Also intentional.

so I just think they understand the kind of impact that Donovan can have on Evan. And it’s not to say that Darius can’t, right? But Donovan is a different level leader. Donovan is a different caliber player. Donovan has more of an understanding of that kind of stuff. Those little nuances of being a leader in the NBA and how to have success as a leader in the NBA.

He just is at a different place in his career than Darius is.

Ethan Sands (42:17.287)

Chris, I’m gonna end this podcast by giving the listeners a little bit of a cliffhanger, right? So Max Drews is gonna come back, right? It’s still to be seen whether or not, what role he will come back in, what capacity he’ll come back in after his ankle injury that’s sidelined him for at least the first 20 games of the season, right? But here are some numbers about the Cavs to start the season.

The Cavs Corp. 4 have played 8 games together, obviously. They have a plus 7.8 net rating, that’s in the 78th percentile. They have an offensive rating of 113.4, that’s in the 48th percentile. Then they have a 105.6 defensive rating, that’s in the 90th percentile. And when we talk about Dean Wade, right, and what he’s been able to bring to the defensive end of the floor, there’s also a caveat of what…

the spacing is for him, but we also have to understand that the offensive rating dips down a little bit to 108.4 with Dean Wade on the floor, which is for 143 possessions so far. And for me, Max Struce, if you add, if you take Max Struce out along with Donovan and Evan, and you keep Jarrett and, you keep Jarrett and.

Darius and potentially Karis Lavert and Sam Merrill who are usually in that first unit off the bench I think that’s a dangerous combo because you put back into the game at some point Max Drews who already has a a game a very good pick and roll and passing game an inverted pick and roll game with Evan Mobley from last year and the possibility of him coming back and having a more

offensive impact off the bench when it comes to whatever role he’s in, I think Max Drew’s coming back will make a significant impact on an offense that is already thriving and be able to add another layer to that, especially when you talk about the rotations that have already been implemented by Kenny Atkinson.

Chris (44:16.78)

Mmm.

Chris (44:33.568)

Sounds like a really good topic for the next podcast.

Ethan Sands (44:37.051)

Let’s do it. So with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send your questions in for this week’s Hey Chris episode. It’ll be later into the week, maybe Thursday. So to do this, sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com backslash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top.

Ethan Sands (45:06.459)

of page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who signed up, stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the Cavs from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.